Learning on a keyboard or a real piano? 16 posts
in Piano
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Joseph Sunga says:
I've always wanted to get back into learning the piano again. I was taught piano in the past and just lost interest because I wasn't into playing songs that I didn't know about. Now, being that I'm a bit older -- I've had the pleasure of listening to some great classical and jazz piano.
Question: What's better to learn on, a regular keyboard piano or a regular piano?
Posted June 05, 2009
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bwsmith says:
Joe,
There are so many varieties of keyboards. The acoustic piano's advantages are an infinite amount of dynamics, however you strike the keys will result in the loudness or softness of what you play. There's also more warmth and touches that you can employ and certain "inside the piano" techniques available.Keyboards range in their sonic possibilities. They have a range of different sounds they can make. Some are touch sensitive. Some have notes that are bendable that can mimic the way guitars bend notes. Some are full length. There's also polyphony, how many notes that can be played simultaneously. 64 and over is a good amount. Then there's the whole Garage band possibilities and MIDI controller functions and other programs that can notate and arrange.
There are acoustic electric pianos. Yamaha makes a few of them. They are acoustic pianos but also electronic and offer the best of both worlds. In fact, Yamaha makes a vast range of acoustic and electronic pianos and I've found their quality to be excellent.
So, you can learn on a good $700 digital 88-key piano or invest in a good console or upright acoustic piano and make wonderful music with either. I'd recommend playing a few at a piano store and see which ones you feel drawn to and then trying a Sam Ash type store for keyboards.
Posted June 11, 2009
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Anita Manuel says:
Joseph,
It all depends on what kind of music you want to learn to play. If you want to play classical music then get the very best acoustic piano that you can afford. I have to admit I may be prejudiced since I teach out of Sherman Clay, the Steinway store, but I hope I also have been learning some valuable things about how good pianos make their distinctive sounds. The best thing to do if you are going to shop for a good acoustic piano is to try as many different pianos as you can to feel the differences in the feel of the keyboard (it's called the action) and also hear the differences in the sound which can various tremendously between different makes of piano but also between different sizes and styles of piano. If you're a beginner it might be good to take a friend along who plays well and plays the kind of music you want to play although of course the sales guy should be able to demo the pianos as well.
Steinways are handmade and have a very complex sound profile. Each instrument also has a very individual sound and can be voiced and regulated according to the owner's taste. Although most of us can't afford these high-end pianos they are wonderful to play, the choice of most concert players. Steinway also has designed two other pianos, the Bostons and the Essexes. I bought a Boston grand last summer and have been very happy to finally have a piano again that I can be fully expressive on. I'm back to regular practice and really enjoying playing because of this piano.
Yamahas are designed to be extremely reliable every one just like every other one. Although they do not have the range of the Steinway family pianos a lot of jazz players like them because of their clean attack. Some players like a European sound like that of the Bosendoerfers (high end) or Estonias. It is a less complex, clearer sound. I think the treble can sound like little bells. Although I had a Kawai grand some years ago the reports I get now are not good. They are made with plastic parts and a student of mine who is trying pianos now said the Kawai "barked" at him.
Sherman Clay also has Henry Millers which are made in China and are very cost effective. The new Performance Series are quite nice.
If you're looking at used pianos or other brands a good resource is The Piano Book by Larry Fine. It has very good information on how to assess a used piano and the quality of various brands including old uprights. If you find what you think is a really good deal on an older piano it's probably a good idea to have a piano technician check it out to let you know if it's worth your money or what kind of work it might require to get it up to good playing quality (and of course what it will cost to do the work).
If you move a lot or can't make noise where you live then a keyboard might be the best option. What you need if you want to be a piano player rather than a keyboard player is an 88-key weighted-action keyboard. If you go someplace like Guitar Center you'll find two separate keyboard rooms, one with work stations and another one with digital pianos and piano-style weighted-action keyboards. Again not all keyboards are the same. Don't be seduced by unnecessary bells and whistles. What is important in the feel of the keys and the quality of the sound sampling. Plan on playing them all and listening carefully preferably through the same set of headphones so you aren't thrown off by the different speakers they may be hooked up to.
I have an old 88-key Roland because I really liked the keyboard sounds--16 different grands, a bunch of harpsichords, 8 different basses, 8 different organs including B-3 and pipe organ, you get the idea. Recently I visited Guitar Center to try keyboards since friends had said the newest Casio was pretty good, unlike the older Casios. What I found for myself was that I thought the Casio sound was pretty boring after only a few minutes, the Yamaha sound was the best of the keyboards under $1000, and that I still loved the Roland sound, especially on the top-end instrument similar to the one I have had for 20 years. But then my sister who is a very good violinist and also plays classical piano and organ well is very happy with her high-end Yamaha.
Of course if what you want to do is to play around with electronic sounds and special effects that is an entirely different story. I would be cautious though about believing that you can get everything in one instrument. I suspect that what you will get will not be fully satisfying for either world.
Feel free to get in touch, Joseph, if I can help answer any other questions.
Anita Manuel
Posted June 11, 2009
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bwsmith says:
Joseph,
Ultimately, you want to learn how to make music. An instrument is a tool for your music. Acoustic or electronic keyboard, singing, drumming, these are all flavors of sounds available. What's motivating you to want to play? What do you need to learn and explore to achieve it? What would be the most natural means toward doing what you'd like on an instrument?Your most natural tool is your ear. To make musical sounds, your voice and hands. And what are the various sensations you experience around music? What is it all saying to you?
Posted June 12, 2009
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Kat Lenhart says:
I just did the same thing... I took a piano class after years of time off. The lessons were always on an acoustic Steinway, but the piano I had access to was an electronic version of a piano (I hesitate in calling it a "keyboard," because it looked like a piano but wasn't acoustic).
Generally, I didn't have too many issues in converting between the two, but once in a while, the heavier weight of the keys on the acoustic piano caused me to slip up.
Are there different weights for keys on a keyboard? Or a way to adjust the weight of the keys?
Posted June 12, 2009
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bwsmith says:
Kat,
I'm not sure if the weight of keys on keyboards can be adjusted but I wouldn't be surprised if some can be. And, absolutely, yes, there are different weights for keys on the "digital piano" variations of keyboards. There are some that have no weight, the same weight per key, and the best ones simulate acoustic pianos going progressively from heavier in the lower registers to lighter in the higher registers.Acoustic pianos are "voiced" and the action can be adjusted. Acoustic pianos vary much in "action", the weight and response of the keys.
Posted June 12, 2009
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Kat Lenhart says:
Oh wow, that's great. So is there a relationship between the thickness of strings and weight of keys?
Posted June 12, 2009
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Dave Schappell says:
Of course, Joseph (and everyone else), you don't want to miss this 'most excellent' How to Buy a Piano article :-)
http://www.teachstreet.com/piano/articles/dave-schappell/how-to-buy-a-first-piano/pb-28docxog
Full Disclosure -- it was inspired by Anita!
Posted June 12, 2009
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Daryn says:
I've seen terrible pianists banging on beautiful pianos, and amazing performances played on a casiotone, so it seems to me that you can learn the basic skills and practice on anything.
The feel is going to be incredibly different, and you'll need to move up to a "real" piano at some point if that's the instrument you want to master, but while you're at the twinkle twinkle little star stage, I'd recommend staying within your budget and getting something easy to take with it as you move, etc.
Posted June 12, 2009
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Miss Katy Gilberts at Katys Musikgarten says:
And there are pianos with some resistance to the keys rentable, is that a word, at music stores. I teach children a combo of music fundamentals and 3 years piano from 7-9. And the store will usually throw in a bench, bag, music stand and such for the same rental price.
My preference is a short trial period of pianos that don't include "weighted keys" because my students learn first by ear, where they sing the chords arpeggio in solfeggio (do mi sol, tonic chord, is what they would sing/or V7/IV) then play in any key that way. I'm sure similar to many teachers.So they will be playing at least a 2-note chord with the first month, albeit with a fairly simply song.
But I think that, after my husband lost his job, I got a whole new look at what "necessities" mean, and I am not worrying as much about the weighted keys.I appreciate your article, and I would love to have you join some of us (musician/performers, music teachers, some of my students' parents) at an orientation to Musikgarten and Edwin Gordon, who spent his life researching how children learn music. How? Before age 9, aptitude or "potential to learn" is based on environment and musical input, where after 9 the concept of "talent" comes in.
June 16 and 24 at 7pm with root beer floats, too. Wiki on Edwin Gordon has a quick and dirty explanation of how children learn music in these early years JUST as they learn language literacy, from birth, immersion, imitate without comprehension, with comprehension, add labels, hear the word or in this case solfeggio tonal pattern in isolation then in a phrase, etc.
Yea, forgive me, I'm reviewing my talk, as concise organized thought isn't usually an easy thing!Join us or come visit the studio for a quick look around sometime. Near Northgate Mall.
Katy
www.katysmusikgarten.com Edwin Gordon has his own website -- remarkable, succinctPosted June 13, 2009
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bwsmith says:
Katy. Thanks. Wonderful site. I'm into Edwin Gordon's approach as well as Carl Orff. I strongly believe that music should be learned through the ears first as opposed to interpreting notation first or keyboard or instrument geography first. And as much as Gordon is geared toward children's learning, I feel a "sounds first" approach works for people of any age. That's why I think anyone who wants x instrument lessons should thing first how they relate to music and what they'd like to do with their music before considering the purchase of any instrument or even the instrument.
Posted June 14, 2009
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Miss Katy Gilberts at Katys Musikgarten says:
Made my day. I am a people person but I work alone in my studio. So hearing other teachers' views is a major treat. Plumps up my tools.
KatyPosted June 14, 2009
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Bill Nordwall says:
For a tinkerer, unless you have a space where you can rock out, go with the cheapest weighted keyboard you can find. You can usually find a surprising good low-end Casio at Guitar Center for around $300. Head over there on your next lunch break (about 6-7 blocks from TeachStreet HQ on Westlake and Mercer) and try it out!
Posted June 15, 2009
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Miss Katy Gilberts at Katys Musikgarten says:
I love these different ways of thinking about it! I must say that I have been gleaning from my families, over the years, that children like to practice more on a decent keyboard. This is truly a personal decision for the family, finances, etc.
My ultimate vote is to rent a nice digital piano, with fully weighted keys, for about 50-75 per month. Children are really challenged to begin this discipline, and I still tend to believe that all of my students should be playing on something that strengthens their fingers.
Hands are made up of mostly muscle, and to play on something that doesn't strengthen the fingers UNTIL they decide, well, kind of a chicken/egg thing. Just brainstorming/processing myself, but I like to at least present the likely brainstorm, so parents can even know the questions to consider.
Thanks, Bill! So many piano teachers and students in the world, and many ways to do it successfully. Some just say "stick with it for 3 mos", then we'll get a better piano. So starting with a Casio then moving to a rented digital, then STEINWAY. Oh, sorry, I was having a fantasy moment.Posted June 15, 2009
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Anita Manuel says:
Something else to consider is the quality of the sound. Even young children respond to good quality sound and are going to want to spend more time with it. Sound that is harsh or boring is going to drive them away and make practicing a chore rather than a pleasure. I think we shortchange kids if we just assume that any old music will do. Give them good quality sound in their instruments and in music that is played in the house. It will give them pleasure and excitement, or peace, and develop their ears. Always get the best quality you can afford.
Posted June 15, 2009
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Miss Katy Gilberts at Katys Musikgarten says:
You made my year. I actually worry that I am setting too high a standard, but I am armed with your thoughts now. I do think parents want to do the right thing and they also don't realize, how could they if haven't taken piano, how it's not easy to develop the discipline.
I feel that piano is one of those endeavours where give even a little and great rewards, whether my youngest child or oldest adult. And kids can progress quickly when happy with the experience which is all the more a reason to get them a piano with weighted keys. Their hands need to be ready for two hands and for keeping up the stamina for practice time itself.For anyone who is interested in how children learn piano by ear and by music, birth to 9 (when every child can), I'll remind of my one hour orientation tonight of these 9 years in a hands-on class where our we experience one song in five age levels and how familiar songs are learned to train the ear then facilitate the eye for reading.
www.katysmusikgarten.com Northgate. A couple spots left. Free adult group piano class for attending, and you may bring a friend to that, even if they don't attend tonight OR NEXT WEDNESDAY at 7pm. studio directions are at the bottom of each page. By the way, arrive 30 minutes ahead of the 7:30-8:30 orientation, if you'd like a root beer float or diet root beer.Happy Tuesday,
Katy
P.S. I'm new to this, so if you are the one receiving this, Anita, that's fine!! I'm having some SMTA teachers this week and next, who never learned to play by ear and can't teach their children to play by ear. I think 50% of my passion is education along with teaching now. I shyed away from orientations, as my brain is a bit random and organizing was like pulling teeth, as far as being brief enough, organized, etc.
But doing the music class to explain seemed to be the ticket. We'll meet one of these days! I'm jealous of all those gleaming grands in your studio. Great!
KatyPosted June 16, 2009
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